a realization

[coraa]

One of the things that keeps me reading Diane Duane's Young Wizard books, even though the quality varies some after the (excellent) first couple, is my profound hunger for books featuring protagonists who are responsible and kind.

Comments

[paperclippy]

I loved those books so much when I was 12-14. As I recall the first two were amazing, the third was okay, and the fourth was not bad. I keep meaning to go back and reread them. I saw that she wrote several more books in the series but I haven't decided whether they are worth reading or not. They sound pretty depressing. :-/

[coraa]

The later ones vary quite a lot in quality. Some of them are really pretty darn good. Some of them are not great, but fun. A couple are just mediocre.

There is a Big Depressing Thing (being vague to avoid spoiling other people) that happens midway through, but one of the things I appreciate about the series is that life goes on afterwards, and people are sad, but cope and go on.

[rachelmanija.livejournal.com]

George R R Martin Tamora Pierce also hits that button for me.

It's remarkable how little "responsible" is valued in fantasy, especially YA fantasy. It sometimes seems like disobeying orders in wartime and so forth is obligatory. I like that Pierce's characters exist within a social structure that gives them both limits and opportunities.

[coraa.livejournal.com]

Yes, very much. Especially Kel, who, when she absolutely must disobey orders, agonizes over the decision, and only does it if there's no way around it. And is prepared to take the punishment for it without whining. Kel's another one who hits both 'responsible' and 'kind.'

I think part of it is a side-effect of the Parent Problem; that is, to be really honest, if most kids acted "responsibly" they'd refrain from haring off to deal with problems on their own. (Obviously, though, you can get around that, whether by making them responsible to a higher mandate than parents and teachers—like Kit and Nita—or put them in a world where they can do heroic things within the scope of their "normal" lifestyle—like Keladry or Beka Cooper.)

There aren't that many other examples, yeah, which is why I cling to the ones I have. Katsa is mostly responsible in Graceling, which I appreciated, although she's too weirdly socialized to hit the "kind" half. (She's not unkind, exactly, but.) Several of Diana Wynne Jones' characters. But no, not that many overall.

[rachelmanija.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I don't mind characters disobeying orders as a last resort, it's just ridiculous when it's their first resort - and in a society which ought to have serious penalties for that sort of thing.

I just realized that I mentally classify "sneaking away and lying to parents," "disobeying orders in wartime just because," and "OMG magic seems to exist! I deny the evidence of my own eyes!" in the same general category of "scenes which are virtually never interesting in and of themselves, and which frequently exist because the author couldn't think of a more interesting alternative."

Not always, of course. Some characters might have character-based reasons not to believe in magic. Some kid characters live in a society which doesn't give kids autonomy, and have parents who don't either. But if authors can avoid those scenes, their books frequently become infinitely more interesting. For instance, Kit and Nita's parents knowing what they're up to, and having to deal with that.

[coraa.livejournal.com]

I'm trying to think of situations in books that feature knee-jerk rebellion where the kid does get punished for it, and the only examples I can think of are ones where the punishment is clearly being used as an example of how the person-in-authority is a sadist and/or a power-tripping tyrant. As opposed to, you know, someone who sees a genuine need for some kind of rules and discipline. "Good" authority figures almost always do the I-will-be-briefly-stern-but-you-can-totally-tell-by-my-twinkling-eyes-and-repressed-smile-that-I-think-you-did-the-right-thing thing. (Which always makes me wonder why on earth the character didn't just make the argument and ask permission, if Person In Authority was so reasonable.)

Actually, the one I can think of offhand is Gwendolyn and Cat getting punished in Charmed Life, but that's sort of a reverse example, because Gwendolyn was kind of the exemplar of exactly what was wrong with a very powerful person just doing what she felt like. (Indeed, Cat didn't so much have to start listening to other people, or start rebelling, as stop listening to the wrong people and start listening to the right ones... which honestly is more realistic, since most of us have to answer to somebody for something.)

I was impressed with how quickly Kit and Nita's families found out. Saved a whole lot of dull sneaking around. Because yeah... there are certain setpiece scenes that are so done that something really has to be unique or awesome about them for me to like them.

[dancambull.livejournal.com]

Pratchett's Tiffany Aching is also a good one, though the story arch is now finished.

[coraa.livejournal.com]

Oh yes! On both counts! I'd forgotten Tiffany, and she very much is.

In their own ways, several of Pratchett's characters are like that. Carrot is a parody of 'responsible and kind,' of course. Angua is, too, in her own weird way. Lady Sybil.

[clairebaxter.livejournal.com]

Mercedes Lackey does this with a number of her characters. Note that I do not mention quality of writing.

I also notice this sort of thing in t.v. that I watch, in particular how The Closer does such a fabulous job of doing things by the books (or the characters getting in serious trouble for not), that all other cop shows look bad in comparison.

[jennifergale.livejournal.com]

Oh, wow, perhaps I should check those out.

That theme of responsibility is one of the things I like so much about (:hides:) Naruto. I'm impressed with (most of) the kids for becoming responsible, especially the kids which begin the manga in a state of moral and ethical laziness. *points to icon* That yummy specimen, for instance.

[dancambull.livejournal.com]

And, of course, Granny Weatherwax.

[osprey-archer.livejournal.com]

I'm a little late to the party, but: Enchantress from the Stars and The Far Side of Evil both fit. In the first, the heroine slowly grows into responsibility, until at the end she's willing to die if that's the responsible thing to do; in the second, she's accepted her responsibilities, and the plot is largely the fault of a colleague who hasn't. And in both books, many of the characters are wonderfully kind.

[smillaraaq.livejournal.com]

As per that recent post on rachelmanija's journal, this definitely sounds like many, many Rosemary Sutcliff books would work for you. Duty and responsibility are major recurring themes, and even the characters who are warriors by avocation usually have the sort of ethos that sees fighting and violence as an ugly but needful thing, but holds deliberate cruelty as ignoble. The Shield Ring, for instance, has one particularly memorable scene where the heroine finishes up some unglamorous-but-needful work with the other women of the household before she sneaks off to follow her best friend who has been sent out on a dangerous solo adventure -- and even there she's thinking of things not in terms of a self-centered desire for excitement, but rather that a friend going out to face mortal danger and his own greatest secret fear should not have to go alone.

You might want to start with some of the books featuring younger protagonists -- some of Sutcliff's adult heroes can be a bit more prickly or stern, and while they're seldom deliberately unkind, some of them may be a little harsher than you'd like. (Aquila from The Lantern Bearers is probably the biggest example -- he's somewhat twisted up inside from the trauma of seeing his family killed or carried off into captivity and spending years dreaming of vengeance as a thrall in Jutland, and even when he tries to show kindness or caring it often just comes out the wrong way.)

[rhinemouse.livejournal.com]

Yes, I do like that aspect of them quite a bit as well. Though I must admit that at this point, one of the big hooks for me is wanting to see Dairine and Roshaun together already.

[rhinemouse.livejournal.com]

You should--despite the previously mentioned variations in quality, they're consistently fun books with occasional moments of awesome. Also, some interesting bits of speculative theology.

(Though OH MY GOSH I wish she would learn to kill characters properly.)

[jennifergale.livejournal.com]

*perks* speculative theology? (You do know how to prod me...)

[rhinemouse.livejournal.com]

Not that it's, like, super-duper-deep, but there is metaphysical worldbuilding. One of the main parts of the series mythology is that there's a devil-figure who goes about tempting species once they've attained sentience, and the way that different species respond to this is a major issue in at least half the books. So it's kind of a like a multi-book speculation on the fall of man, only from a very non-Christian perspective. Which is interesting . . .